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WedgeAntilles
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PostSubject: Welcome to the Elite?   Wed 19 May 2010 - 12:05

Warning! This post is a bit LONGER. Make sure you take/have some time to read it.

As you might know (or in case you don't) i never was able to favour Undead Assault 2 the way some of you guys do (if you want reasons, feel free to ask). Originally i joined this clan, coz i hoped i would get some people to play Notd: Aftermath with me (which is my favourite custom map and always will be). But these games rarely took place (players complaining about the nvg being to bright, finding the game too hard etcetc). So i hang around USEast most of my WC3 time, where Notd: Aftermath is kept alive by Clan SAD (most Notd players are on this realm). From time to time i log on onto Europe (like it has been the case recently and right now), to play some fungames with my Clannies (e.g Poke the Angry herb..er oger Razz) or various survival games, UA2 included. And this is where i come to the quintessence of my post.

Today i joined a game of an Inhouse UA2 (hard mode), including 2 other shamans beside me. And i was surprised in a very negative way. I am going to mention names and i take the risk of being hated or disapproved. The following Screenshot shows all members of the game (which was a full game).

Sgt.blade101 dies ca 5 mins after the game has started (!) and leaves shortly after that. Could have waited for revive but w/e.
So the game goes on...
Up to convoy mission things run more or less smoothly. I even detect tactical placement of explosives to delay the Convoy and to hold off Pudges (whoever did that, good job). But after that the fail goes on. It includes various people dying on convoy or killing teammates. Unfortunatly i cannot remember names here, but it were 3 team kills minimum. As the game proceeds more people die. Even General Herbmaster. I think you were eating at that time, which would explain your death, but on the other hand why would you eating while you are playing? When the game reaches the mission where the satchel need to be planted in the Umbrella Facility i am the only one left, the last one to die was Legendel. I do not really felt like i was supported and advised well during that mission. I know how groundflares works, thx. Sometimes you pinged gun placements Herb, but most of the times you said "throw groundflares" or "shoot guns", which was an obvious thing to do and did not really help me. The only useful hint was the jump out trick, which i did not know. It saved me from the explosions inside, unlike Blaxter who managed to get his mini boomed up in there. After that i ask what to do now and i am told to go in to umb facility again. It was hilarious to see that you told me to sprint (i know it lets me move faster). But when i saw Blaxter typing Z+T i was really short before banging my head to the desk. UA2 is a ripoff of Notd: Am. Various parts and controls of the map are copied or overtaken in a similar form. Maybe you got disorientated by me being Private. However even if you thought i would be new....DO YOU REALLY THINK I AM TOO STUPID TO READ THE FUCKING COMMANDS? Instead you all let me run into a remaining hidden Sentry Gun. As veteran players you could have easily prewarned me. Still it was aweful to see how i as Pvt was outliving all those high ranks.

Dying is a bad thing to do. But that is not the top of the iceberg. The really disgusting part was the lack of teamplay. All those teamkills are a sign of not looking out/caring for your teammates. But i guess that is business as usual, because there is NC for infinite revive? Plus it was interesting to see how everyone had to carry around his own ammo. What about choosing a drop off point? And why should you leave items of dead people on them (i think it was called "looting" ingame, when some people took stuff from their fallen comrades)? They are not doing anything useful when they are lying around. Especially when nc is dead, too and there is no fast revive in sight. I e.g took ammo from corpses (which for whatever reason no one saw or no one complained about) an dropped it in southwest town later.

I am basing this thoughts on my notd experiences. There is a standard camping place after the convoy mission (South Air Field), followed by a mission where you need to place spy radars (good suited for scouting items, due to low spawns). I can drop all my stuff at camping place, even class-critical weapons and go scouting with 6 inventory slots (and i can be sure i can get my stuff back after scouting is finished). Scouting in this mission shows good manner, the aim is to have enough ammo for the rest of the chapter. Ammunition is stockpiled at camping place. There is no need to eat up/hog ammo for yourself. Ammo is shared. When some1 asks for ammo, he will always get a clip. Some players even ask others if they need ammo, when they found extra cases early game.

In Notd:Am teamkills do not happen often. You are encouraged to prevent teamkills by the game in 3 ways: Certain Medals awarded for pushing a full squad alive to a certain stage of the game, punishment in 2 forms for killing a teammember, 1. form applies to the killer, 2. form to the whole team and finally no revive. When you are dead, you are dead. Players look out for each other when they use skills/items that can kill allies to ensure no one is harmed. However sometimes mistakes happen and when it is clear that the player who did the teamkill is responsible for it (yes, there are rare exceptions) it is good manner to apologize. Furthermore you can get banned for intentional teamkills or teamkills happening out of gross negligence/stupidity.

I am not saying Notd:Am games are free from failing. They are failing then and again. But they rarely fail out of lacking teamplay.

Well this is my opinion, maybe i am expecting too much, since Notd:Am is a much greater challenge then any UA2 mode (i am not accepting any contradiction of those who never played Notd:Am, which is basically 90% of the Clan, haha). But UA2 is the main survival map played by this Clan, so the games should be... better.



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Spoprockel
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Wed 19 May 2010 - 12:35

Eh heh heeh Smile

Well, what can i tell you, shit happens. I wasn't there and didn't see how exactly it happened, so i can only imagine it from what i know about these guys.

3 TKs seem a lot for a game with many good people from the clan, stop relying on your luck when you toss MGL frags over max distance and hoping for max accuracy Razz

As for the umb facility, i do remember almost all the sentries but again, shit happens, theres quite a lot of them, sometimes 2 very close to each other, so you can forget about one or think it's already down.

And i have played Notd: am about 3 or 4 times and kinda liked it, i guess i'll have to give it a closer look and join some pro games to learn it.
But i always liked UA2 more because of its better graphics, better survivability and for being simpler, more straightforward than NOTD: AM.


And about that Elite thing, i think that only applies to a certain kind of attitude, not any actual gaming skills Exclamation
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Herbmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Wed 19 May 2010 - 16:06

lol! wed...its hard to ping all the gun and spo said too " they are close together " those ping i say throw ground flare are best place and will show all guns bom maybe if you play more then you will know where the guns are like in notd you where the cave are study hard is only for fun in clan sar so maybe if you play abit more then we can play some insane which is worth playing with skill king
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Wed 19 May 2010 - 19:43

Ouch I was not there for this game, anyway like Spo said, shit happens. Well from your story I am not sure if you were the one that solo'd the umb mission full on or there were other people that took out sentries with you. Most veteran players do make mistakes and may overlook Sentry guns since I dont a lot of people know exactly how many, where they are, range of the guns and keeps track of which ones have not been taken out.
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TNT_PIZZA
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Thu 20 May 2010 - 4:13

it was just a fail game Razz it happens, and usually we do better...
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JosephN
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Thu 20 May 2010 - 6:06

lol! wedge, firstly i see your point it wasn't much of a "pro" game and i didn't see the umb facility mission due to me dcing Evil or Very Mad but we all have bad games and this was just one of them Laughing
About the teamkills I myself don't play much notd:am but I have done a few times and I think tks are less common just because its harder to tk. But with tks in ua2 its very common i mean nearly every game I see atleast one tk its not really a biggy for us lot Laughing
But of course tk isnt brilliant but shit happens bounce

Quote :
Even General Herbmaster. I think you were eating at that time, which would explain your death, but on the other hand why would you eating while you are playing?

At gen rank you have an option ingame to this Razz

And i agree about teamplay we do lack it this is mainly because before we even made SAR when we all played together this is how we all used to play Laughing and no doubt about it we do a god damn good job most of the time lol!

To cure this lack of teamgame maybe we could appoint some people to lead the team before game starts to do things during game, I'm sure a topic has already been written on this team game situation lol! But still this could also add a whole new dimension to the game maybe you could do this wedgie as it you have the experience of notd:am which you say is much more team based, I dont really know much about notd so dont scream at me if i got that wrong lol!

Quote :
Scouting in this mission shows good manner, the aim is to have enough ammo for the rest of the chapter. Ammunition is stockpiled at camping place. There is no need to eat up/hog ammo for yourself. Ammo is shared. When some1 asks for ammo, he will always get a clip. Some players even ask others if they need ammo, when they found extra cases early game.

i remeber games long ago when ghost used to do this scouting in umb for the rest of us that were camping but times have changed where we are more confident and more skilled to get our own ammo lol!
Not sure about in that game but if people need ammo they generally say and someone gives them it

Quote :
UA2 is the main survival map played by this Clan, so the games should be... better.

Seeing as a few of us me included have been on a "ua2 break" or just be inactive for a period of time we haven't really played that much with each other but also there are a few newer players in the clan nowadays and maybe they aren't used to playing the way we do?
But anyway that's my view on the whole post jocolor
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TNT_PIZZA
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Thu 20 May 2010 - 6:38

about TKs... i think there is more tk in ua2 because we can rez. i mean people are like "idc if he dies, the NC will rez him anyway". Oh and incase you didnt know already.. herb is very unlucky with orbs lol! also when you're in the highest rank, you think you are too cool to be careful Cool.
Remember the notd game we had? we beat it whitout anybody dying. it was a pub game, and when its pub your more focused on doing your best to show the others you're better. And when you play with friends, you play for fun not to get most kills/least death or whatever, thats why we were not careful and died so much.
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Admin
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Thu 20 May 2010 - 7:47

Gj for starting this discussion wedge. I am worried about the quality of clan SAR lately.

In fact most people join us for we are a name to Undead Assault 2. Though i dont see us as a official hardcore ua2 clan as we also play other maps, this is what we can do. I think we can say that maybe with envy as an exeption we all suck at dota and are rather mediocre at other funmaps.
But we have a history in ua2 and should say we have mastered it. Think we have beaten all modes expect insane -rifle. But never forget that ua2 is considered an easy map. Agreed?

Im not worried if we dont win every game we play, but teamplay should have priority again like it used to be. We have got many new members lately, some of old clan ua2 and some new players, but some of them lack some essential basics of a survival teamgame. Instead they keep what they find, dont help in missions or rambo around and die foolish deaths which could be prevented. I dont think i have to come up with names here, as i think you know if your adressed or not. If your uncertain you can always ask me.
The bad side of having a high rank is that you become less teachable. Also sometimes we are just too lazy to show what to do or (even worse) fool around ourselves in public games, teamkilling, ego-thinking and thus give clan SAR a bad reputation. Would be good if we get back to playing as we used to be:
- giving items to those who need it
- playing the class according to its role which means no rambo medic and no camping ghost/scout/sniper, etc.
- helping each other by communicating
- ...

I think you get the message. Also maybe playing without medic or at least without revive would make us having more weight on actual survival. Sure its handy to have revive but it also makes you less cautious. I think you all know im a big fan of these other zombie maps with no revive, and think the new unloved DOTD made a good compromise by giving the medic 3 reanimation kits (+ additional to be found as items). So your all about not to die by any chance and if it happens not out of a stupid reason the medic is willing to revive you.

Hope we get some others words on here too. We should use these quiet days till joller and dude get unbanned for spamming.

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MSousa
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Fri 21 May 2010 - 1:02

First: Nice one that you reveals your thoughts about UA2 and more or less the Clan.

In my point of View, i have understand that you are criticize UA2 as a "very-bad-copy-of-notdam" map because its not one of your Favorite map. But i think every map has is own Pro and Contra's. I have play NOTD:AM sometimes and it is a quite interessted map but there are also things that i dont like in Notd:am like there are things that i dont like in Ua2.
So i think if you dont like the map you dont have to force yourself to play it Very Happy

Yeah Teamkill is a annoying thing, that can happens in Games. But because of that we are a Clan, a Team, Mates, Friends we all (i think) dont see it soo dramatically if we die. And that makes the game sometimes quite Interessting, that you have to Revive your friend in a bad situation for Example. But sometimes the game is just a big Fail. So like the others said it happens.

Like Audio said we also playing other Funmaps instead of Ua2 and in the most Games that we play UA2 we not so focused to play as PRO as possible. We alll want fun and play Together.

i have no objection that we are not the Elite of Undead Assault II cause im here for Fun.

P.S. Herb should be banned for Orbing Teammates lol! ^^
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Spoprockel
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Fri 21 May 2010 - 2:03

Heh, about those orb TKs:

Imo the orb is one of the most powerful spells in UA2. It deals massive dmg to enemies in a row, stuns them, slows them, moves them back and provides vision in its move path.

But it aso takes many, many TKs and much time to master it, try it out on every edge, every area throughout the map, to get a feeling for its bouncing.

And even after that time there is a chance that shit happens. It's the most unpredictable thing in whole UA2, much worse than frag strafe.
You can aim it from the same spot at the same tree three times and still get 3 different bouncing results.

I think it's best to try it out in clan games, where people don't get too mad at you and vote to kick you after the 3rd orb TK Razz

I myself orbed soooo many people before i mastered it.

So orb on Herb, orb TK's are the only TK's that I don't really care about if it's bad luck. Just don't stand infront of the North Hill and orb straight down at those rocks, the orb will most likely return in a straight line to the hill and kill everything near the ramp when it explodes Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Fri 21 May 2010 - 4:00

you all have a point to say about this but i have drill the game play into the old sar guy already,thats why we can beat hard
easy and have high rate of beating insane too but with those new guy its not so same game.UA2 is kinda dead now but we still have many that want to get the GEN rank and those are the hardcore ppls like me and glenn which still enjoy the game.

when we play some hard/insane mode i can see some go block the cave and some look for items,blocking corny and ec the path to stop pud raping us.those tactics have been drill into many old sar and so many have lean it since and have show it to the new guy but the game dose get abit boring espcially when you got 500K+ xp.

we are still the Elite and if we get the old sar for agame we always win easy and some tk will make the game more fun as you
can call the TKER noob so med go ress him and get killed too Laughing.

dosent matter what map you play,the game play is almost the same and i am sure if you get some pro notd and you beat it easy too but dont forget xp make game harder and winning agame with low xp players is not so hard.

my orb skill is pro as i can kill anyone or whole team with 1 orb and have screen shot to prove it Rolling Eyes

so if you guys think we are no teamplay then you maybe wrong but you are also can be right.you will alway see teamplay with the old guys king
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Legendel
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Fri 21 May 2010 - 18:30

like to point out the "some" part. heh, even the high ranking members amoung us... cough* lack that drilling and instead have had grinding.
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Sun 23 May 2010 - 1:51

Admin wrote:
Gj for starting this discussion wedge. I am worried about the quality of clan SAR lately.

In fact most people join us for we are a name to Undead Assault 2. Though i dont see us as a official hardcore ua2 clan as we also play other maps, this is what we can do. I think we can say that maybe with envy as an exeption we all suck at dota and are rather mediocre at other funmaps.
But we have a history in ua2 and should say we have mastered it. Think we have beaten all modes expect insane -rifle. But never forget that ua2 is considered an easy map. Agreed?

Im not worried if we dont win every game we play, but teamplay should have priority again like it used to be. We have got many new members lately, some of old clan ua2 and some new players, but some of them lack some essential basics of a survival teamgame. Instead they keep what they find, dont help in missions or rambo around and die foolish deaths which could be prevented. I dont think i have to come up with names here, as i think you know if your adressed or not. If your uncertain you can always ask me.
The bad side of having a high rank is that you become less teachable. Also sometimes we are just too lazy to show what to do or (even worse) fool around ourselves in public games, teamkilling, ego-thinking and thus give clan SAR a bad reputation. Would be good if we get back to playing as we used to be:
- giving items to those who need it
- playing the class according to its role which means no rambo medic and no camping ghost/scout/sniper, etc.
- helping each other by communicating
- ...

I think you get the message. Also maybe playing without medic or at least without revive would make us having more weight on actual survival. Sure its handy to have revive but it also makes you less cautious. I think you all know im a big fan of these other zombie maps with no revive, and think the new unloved DOTD made a good compromise by giving the medic 3 reanimation kits (+ additional to be found as items). So your all about not to die by any chance and if it happens not out of a stupid reason the medic is willing to revive you.

Hope we get some others words on here too. We should use these quiet days till joller and dude get unbanned for spamming.

I don't suck at DoTA, add me as an exception Razz, anway for the second part, am I one? Just to clarify, constructive critisism is fine with me Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Sun 23 May 2010 - 3:38

I see your point herb, but it's not so elite to not be able to adapt to the situation though is it? In this case, less capable teammates.



With the non-spam part out of the way, what I really wanted to say:
You all suck donkey balls.
Envy- to...
and admin...
especially admin...
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WedgeAntilles
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Sun 23 May 2010 - 4:45

I will accept the reason, that it was "just one fail game". Looking forward to playing more UA2 games with you to see if they are better.

But there is still some criticism left.

Quote :
About the teamkills I myself don't play much notd:am but I have done a few times and I think tks are less common just because its harder to tk. But with tks in ua2 its very common i mean nearly every game I see atleast one tk its not really a biggy for us lot
But of course tk isnt brilliant but shit happens

Quote :
we are still the Elite and if we get the old sar for a game we always win easy and some tk will make the game more fun as you
can call the TKER noob so med go ress him and get killed too .

It is not harder to tk. It is as easy as in UA2. One misguided E Button Click (Mono for the Marksman, Nade for the Infantry Unit leader /Delta Operator, HEAA for the Assaultman) can ruin a game in seconds. Just to name a few options. I won’t even accept one teamkill as “okay” in UA2, assuming it happens out of stupidity/lacking care. Also I cannot understand why it should be fun to kill a teammember so everyone else can call him noob.

Oh and one word about fun. I guess i follow a different definition of fun. For me the fun comes by playing games of this kind successful (survival) as a result of teamplay and communication.

PS: I would not describe my dota gameplay as sucky. I know quite some item/hero Kombos. But like in UA2 teamplay plays a role in Dota, especially in lategame. The real "proness" consists of working as one unit.
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Admin
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Sun 23 May 2010 - 11:27

A positive thought about ua2 just came to my mind.
But first something else. Theres 3 other maps i really like and play more or less regularly. 1.) Island Defense 2.) DotA 3.) Notd:AM. If you make a mistake in any of those games people will hate you. They will start to use chat only in caps letters, tell you that you are a noob and they will efff your mum, kill your dad and sell the organs of your sister, you get the deal. As much as i like the maps theres still this never ending uptightness and zero-tolerance to failure attitude which really gets on my nerves sometimes.

In Ua2 i never had the idea that players are that serious, that they seem to know its only a game to have fun which in my opinion is the only reason to play computer games. Sure they would call you a noob if you tk the convoy or do something awkward, but they never would tk you if you carry "their" item or start to votekick you if you ate all ammo.

I like that our clan consists of guys who know there are many mistakes to be made (not only in games) and that we will be awesome on one day and fail on the other.

I thoughts it might be good to share that thought. Cya out there!

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Just_A_Dude
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Sun 23 May 2010 - 17:55

And thats why your all noobs and I will

Admin wrote:
will efff your mum, kill your dad and sell the organs of your sister.

I think wedie mean that our clan is acting more like a rundown of random dudes then THE ELITE.
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Sun 23 May 2010 - 19:12

Admin wrote:
A positive thought about ua2 just came to my mind.
But first something else. Theres 3 other maps i really like and play more or less regularly. 1.) Island Defense 2.) DotA 3.) Notd:AM. If you make a mistake in any of those games people will hate you. They will start to use chat only in caps letters, tell you that you are a noob and they will efff your mum, kill your dad and sell the organs of your sister, you get the deal. As much as i like the maps theres still this never ending uptightness and zero-tolerance to failure attitude which really gets on my nerves sometimes.

In Ua2 i never had the idea that players are that serious, that they seem to know its only a game to have fun which in my opinion is the only reason to play computer games. Sure they would call you a noob if you tk the convoy or do something awkward, but they never would tk you if you carry "their" item or start to votekick you if you ate all ammo.

I like that our clan consists of guys who know there are many mistakes to be made (not only in games) and that we will be awesome on one day and fail on the other.

I thoughts it might be good to share that thought. Cya out there!

Well there are always exceptions, since not everyone will call you a Newb. Some people are helpful others rage. Most people depending on their mood like if they had a bad game right before they joined the game your in will most likely rage. I sometimes pretend to be a newb, no one really rages unless you mess up badly, one or two they'll say don't do that, do this etc but if you feed they rage.
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Tue 8 Jun 2010 - 10:12

omg pvt blax?... lol i whant a new pic!
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to the Elite?   Tue 8 Jun 2010 - 14:24

You are demoted for the time being study .
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